"It won't happen forever for 1 million people to watch my movie in Japan. If 10,000 people in Japan and 10,000 people in 100 countries watch each other, I think about 1 million people will gather in the end, isn't that quite rewarding? I make a movie while doing it.” If we take seriously what director Kiyoshi Kurosawa jokingly said at the beginning of the interview, the audiences who gathered to see <Cure> at this year's Jeonju International Film Festival would be exactly the target of that category . Director Yeon Sang-ho , who was nominated as ‘Programmer of the Year’ , took on a role as a film colleague in Cure (1997), which captures the anxiety of Takabe Takabe (Shoji Yakyusho), a detective who uncovers a serial murder case committed by ordinary people in Tokyo . A year later, it still exerts an eerie hypnotic effect on movie fans and Asian film directors.Director Yeon Sang-ho, who said he used <Cure> as a valuable source of inspiration while making the Netflix original <Hell>, and the secret behind the box office success of < Train to Busan >. Kiyoshi Kurosawa, who wants to hear it, met <Cine 21> at the Jeonju Lounge.The two directors, who still love the promise of genre films and the land of destruction, were ready to set fire to the world they are standing in again.

What <Cure> left behind

- <Cure> , which captures the sentiment of the end of the century, is surprisingly contemporary now, 25 years later. Director Yeon Sang-ho also revealed the reason for his affection for that point.

Yeon Sang-ho Usually, if you limit it to 'movies you really like', each person has only a few works. <Cure> is such a work for me . It was an opportunity to completely fall into Kurosawa Kiyoshi's film world, and when preparing for Netflix's <Hell> , I got a lot of inspiration from <Cure> in terms of how to show the places surrounding the characters and how to organize and divide the shots. Director Kiyoshi Kurosawa's films seem to tell me what kind of films I want to see as an audience and therefore as a director. It was difficult for me to go to the theater for a while, but during < Spy's Wife >, I went to the theater with my wife after a long time. <Atonement> (2012), a 5-episode drama based on the novel by Kanae Minato , and < Walking Invaders > (2017) , which has a body snatcher tradition, are also personal favorites.

Kurosawa Kiyoshi Very happy and dizzy at the same time. At the time of filming, I hadn't thought at all about this kind of reaction 25 years later. In particular, I can't believe that directors outside of Japan will remember <Cure> ... . You did a good job of making a movie, I feel so grateful. I also think about the fact that the medium of film can maintain its influence even after a long time. Yesterday after the screening of <Cure> , we had a similar conversation at the GV, but at the time of making <Cure>, I really only wanted to make a fun movie. At that time, in 1997, there were various social events in Japan, but there was no social consciousness to melt it into a movie. Nevertheless, it is touching that the audience, who read the sensibilities of the end of the century and the nature of the times, are projecting something contemporary into the work again 25 years later.

Method of genre, definition of genre

- I wonder if the genre is gradually becoming a useless or ambiguous word. What is the definition and method of genre today for the two directors, who are tenacious guardians of genre in Korea and Japan?

Yeon Sang-ho I've been curious about director Kiyoshi Kurosawa for a long time, but I want to ask him now. If you are making a so-called 'genre film', do you have your own standards for which genre to choose? In addition, the more I work, the more I want to find a new breakthrough within the framework of genre films, and I wonder how director Kiyoshi Kurosawa is carrying out that attempt.

Kurosawa Kiyoshi First of all, putting my ideals aside, my cinematic archetypes that I have pursued so far are American films in the 1970s and genre films in the 70s centering on B-grade films. The coexistence of genre and novelty is a complex issue. American films in the 1970s are meaningful as attempts to dismantle the conventions of genres and the boundaries promised to the public through studio films in the 1940s and 1950s. Either a detective becomes a criminal, or a very kind and nice person starts killing. In fact, the genre we are referring to now seems to refer to a style that maximizes cinematic effects by making these attempts and initial promises more ambiguous and ambiguous. I am a director who has reproduced it in the culture and sensibility of Japan, and this repetitive work, which was possible until now, is changing into a more difficult industrial environment these days. Actually, I wanted to ask the same question, so I said I would meet director Yeon Sang-ho... (Laughter) I was very curious about the realistic problems of how they are filming genre films while cooperating with their contemporaries. Looking at Korean films these days, they pursue very diverse genres and expand their possibilities, but the Japanese market is not like that.

- Are there any interesting points in director Yeon Sang-ho's films or Korean genre films?

Among the works directed by Kiyoshi Kurosawa Yeon Sang-ho , I watched < Train to Busan > and < Peninsula >. I remember it very impressively as it came as a model for genre films. The whole time I watched it, I was full of tension and thrill, not predicting what would happen in the future, but looking back after it was all over, I got the impression that the story was wrapped up smoothly in the way it should be, in terms of who dies and who survives, and what the ending will be. I felt a certain confidence and boldness in the ending with deep emotions. Since it is an expression method that I have not tried before, I wanted to know the secret of the composition process of how to make a movie that is cinematically effective while being faithful to the universality of the genre.

Yeon Sang-ho There is no special method at all. However, regarding < Train to Busan >, I can tell you about my long-standing grievances. When I was working on independent animation, I didn't have to censor myself for the dark and gloomy aspects of my story, but around < Train to Busan >, I thought I shouldn't do that anymore. How much money did you put in? (Laughter) I started thinking about how to find a universal point emotionally and thematically. At first, there were many moments of hesitation because I thought it was a work that did not suit me well. As a result, it can be said that the experience of Train to Busan was a turning point in the director's life. On the day we filmed the ending for < Train to Busan >, I actually cried a lot behind the camera. It was a scene that I was a little worried about, but I felt an unknown power at the moment when the character came to life with the part that the actor interpreted and expanded as his own acting.

- Both directors enjoy drawing characters facing an irresistible dystopia. The moments that symbolize the ills of society are also common. The characters of Kiyoshi Kurosawa fight against the inner shadow, and the characters of Yeon Sang-ho fight against the external evil, another human being.

When deciding on Kurosawa Kiyoshi's character, I tend to divide it into similar categories, but more intuitively, it can be expressed as passive and active. As in < The Cure >, a detective may obsessively cling to a case and decide to pursue the criminal, but on the other hand, there may also be narratives in which an ordinary person struggles against it after facing a very difficult task. Lately, I'm more drawn to the latter. It makes me wonder if an extremely ordinary person's life is changing in a somewhat passive and helpless state after facing a tragedy and how it is portrayed. It's a slightly different story, but in this process, the gender I focus on as the main character has also changed. I used to think of male characters in my head without realizing it when I drew characters who were only running forward, obsessed with self-subjection and belief, but these days, as I go through dystopia, I want to draw characters who change and try to change themselves, and I naturally choose female characters. Raise. It may be my prejudice regarding men and women, but in terms of flexibility and the possibility of self-reflection, I inevitably choose a female character.

As a fan of Yeon Sang-ho's movies, it's exciting to work when the movie I want to make and the feeling I feel while living in society are combined. Maybe that's what's going on in the movie. There is a moment in my life when I feel despair in this era, and when that point is connected to the convention of genre films, a spark of fun bursts inside me. When I write a character, I tend to follow that intuition.

Living as a 'field director' in a divided world of cinema

- Last year, director Kiyoshi Kurosawa was awarded the Japanese Cultural Merit, Embroidery Medal. At that time, he referred to himself as a 'field manager' and talked about the fate of a director working in the field and the joy of it.

Yeon Sang-ho Recently, I had a similar thought, but I was convinced that I was the one who felt the most joy in field production in the process of making a movie and releasing it to the audience. From the planning stage, production operation, post-production, distribution and publicity, the director has no choice but to participate in all parts. I feel very close to the staff in the production part, and there are times when I feel like a person in the field, aware that I am sharing personal stories and life worries with them without my knowledge.

Kurosawa Kiyoshi really has the same thoughts. Honestly, I think how the director exists in the field is the most important factor in determining the fate of a film. No matter how good the script is, if the scene is not well run, the result will be bad. The place that breathes life into the work is the site. However, it is difficult to always have a good relationship in the field, and I do not think that it is necessarily helpful for a movie. Unexpected things always happen there. Because we communicate with many people in a high-intensity atmosphere, there are fun and meaningful things, but on the contrary, things that are very hurt or confrontational are unavoidable. Despite mutual trust, it is a place of conflict, so it should be defined that all movie scenes are actually very scary places. In any case, there is only one way to work with the idea of ​​a one-time opportunity to unfold what I thought in my head, a one-time space-time.

- How are the filming conditions in both Korea and Japan these days?

Kurosawa Kiyoshi As is well known, the time given on set is very tight when shooting in Japan. You can do it at your own discretion in pre-rehearsal, but there are a lot of restrictions on set. But the best acting always comes from unexpected takes. As a director, I want to try this and that to get the best moment, but there are many times when I feel sad. In the culture of the Korean film industry, I know that it is possible for a director to request a reshoot or for an actor to go through several more takes because they feel sorry for themselves. The atmosphere where such a wide range of autonomy is allowed is very strange to me, and I wanted to ask director Yeon Sang-ho how it was possible.

Masters such as director Yeon Sang-ho Kurosawa Kiyoshi are also hearing about the situation in the Japanese film industry where production is not easy. In the case of independent film directors, it is also keenly aware that the environment is worse in terms of production costs and number of episodes. One of the big impressions I got when I was just moving from independent animation to live-action film was that the Korean system values ​​the director's consciousness as an artist and the actor's inspiration as the driving force of the industry itself. It seems that the basic attitude of the Korean film industry is to allow the director to do what he wants. Of course, there are parts that require contact with the audience as much as the production scale of the work, but basically there is an atmosphere that tries to respect the director's domain even if it is a new director. Of course, there are downsides to that as well. If one movie doesn't go well, it's all the responsibility of the director. (laugh)

Kiyoshi Kurosawa That's it, of course. (Laughter) Japanese movies will probably get harder and harder. With the emergence of the OTT platform, OTT movies and dramas are being produced in Japan with a budget that is several times that of a movie. The staff who passed on like that don't come back to the movie. I get paid more and work in a good environment, but the movie version is not like that. But to be honest, not all cases are necessarily the same, but I recently watched a Japanese OTT drama with a huge budget, and I thought, 'Why is this so interesting?' I had no choice but to think.

Relentless optimism about the film

- Director Kiyoshi Kurosawa won the Silver Lion Award at the Venice International Film Festival for his re-edited TV version of < The Wife of a Spy >, and director Yeon Sang-ho is making a name for himself on Netflix's <Hell> and Teabing <The Stranger>. Working across media, especially in a theater environment threatened by the rapid rise of the OTT platform and pandemic, how does the filmmaking of the two directors be affected?

Yeon Sang-ho In the Japanese animation industry, there is a concept called OVA (Original Video Animation) (an animation that is distributed only as a video or DVD, not a TV version or theatrical version - editor). When video decks were distributed and common, this OVA animation was very popular. Unlike animations based on cartoons that have already been verified and animations with a very large budget, in the OVA market, original and maniac aspects, or mini-series that have original works but are difficult to solve on TV, etc. appeared. Among the great animations we call Japanimation, there are quite a few OVAs. Instead of OVA animation remaining as an antipode of the TV and theater markets, it became an opportunity for creators to demonstrate new creativity. Not from an industrial point of view, but from the director's point of view, the current OTT environment also has such an aspect. There is also a thought that it will give tension to both markets that have been fixed.

Kurosawa Kiyoshi Interesting. Since director Yeon Sang-ho experienced animation first, it seems that he has a side of him that observes various opinions and sees them differently from established perspectives. It's the same in Korea, but it's not easy for a director who makes a live-action film to interact with an animation director, so I've never talked about this with a Japanese animation director. The opinions of people who have experienced both are fresh and valuable. One thing, I'd like to add one of my somewhat optimistic thoughts. Wouldn’t it be a much better environment for movies and OTT if the audience were given freedom of choice? It is only if the process of being able to watch OTT-made movies in large theaters, and movies in movie theaters through OTT is closely and organically built. Another belief is that the anxiety and worry that 'movies will disappear' is actually too old, and that films will not be ruined or destroyed so easily. From film to digital, and through TV, VHS, and DVD, OTT is now a big trend, but there are still people who love movie theaters. There will continue to be people who want the pleasure of seeing people together in the dark, the tension that something will finally begin when the lights go out. As long as such demands remain, films will continue, and the work of people like us will continue.

Yeon Sang-ho There are so many more stories I want to tell, but it's a pity that time is always limited. Now, first, director. If you give me your contact information...

Kiyoshi Kurosawa Of course. great! (laugh)